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Reaching the truss rod-truss rod length?
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Author:  LarryH [ Sat Jan 27, 2007 1:59 am ]
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I'm not quite at this stage yet but I am coming up against an issue I don't understand. I bought a slot head neck from StewMac and after measuring the length of the neck decided on their smallest 12 1/4" truss rod.

Also read their instruction manual for their 000 12 fret slot head, which is what I'm building, and the manual shows the truss rod ending at the neck/body joint. That puts the truss rod adjustment nut a LONG way from the transverse brace and the sound hole.

My question: Is the body/neck joint the proper placement for the end of the truss rod? Do I just need to find or fabricate an allen wrench long enough to reach and hopefully find that little 1/8" nut through the sound hole? Or should the truss rod extend into the body? All the way to the transverse brace? How far?

Thanks

LarryLarryH39109.6880555556
Author:  old man [ Sat Jan 27, 2007 2:09 am ]
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Larry, I believe my rods are a total length of about 15 1/2". The rod is 14 1/2 with a nut extension of 1". It extends past the end of the tenon. It starts about 1/2-3/4" from the nut.

Ron
Author:  LarryH [ Sat Jan 27, 2007 5:04 am ]
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If I'm reading your posts correctly both of your truss rod set-ups extend past the tenon?

It's the proper wrench thing that I am trying to look ahead and avoid. I have a hard enough time when the adjusting nut is right at the sound hole, I can't imagine trying to reach it 5 inches away.

I just measured my Martin 12 fretter and the truss rod adjusting nut is about an inch away from the edge making the truss rod about 15 to 15 1/2" long and extending well past the tenon joint a little more than 4" under the fretboard extension.

Seems like if it's good enough for Martin... but my truss rod(s) are 12 1/4" and 14 1/4" long (bought the second thinking that 12 1/4" was not long enough) so is there a special technique or bracing scheme that allows for a longer extension of the truss rod past the tenon joint?

It seems that if that area under the fret board extension weren't properly braced the truss rod would want to effect that area too much when trying to adjust neck relief?

A lot of questions in there so any help greatly appreciated.

Larry
Author:  old man [ Sat Jan 27, 2007 5:13 am ]
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Larry, my truss rod sits about flush with the end of the tenon, but the adjusting nut sticks out about 1". Hopefully you drilled a 1/4" hole in the upper brace to access the nut.   I'm using a 14 fret neck also.

Ron
Author:  LarryH [ Sat Jan 27, 2007 5:25 am ]
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[QUOTE=old man] Larry, my truss rod sits about flush with the end of the tenon, but the adjusting nut sticks out about 1". Hopefully you drilled a 1/4" hole in the upper brace to access the nut.   I'm using a 14 fret neck also.

Ron[/QUOTE]

Yup, got the hole drilled and the top is not yet on. The only difference is that a 12 fretter has a 2 fret longer distance from the tenon to the sound hole. If I leave the adjusting nut at the tenon I'll need a 5" long allen wrench. If I leave it out the 1" which works for your set-up I'll still need a 4" long allen wrench. Both seem too long to really get to the nut effectively.

I'm contemplating installing the 14 1/2" truss rod. leaving it sticking out of the tenon by 2" then bracing the top in such away that the truss rod will not distort the top. I'm thinking it's just a stout piece of spruce that extends from the transverse brace to the heel block that I route out later for the truss rod and truss rod access?
Author:  burbank [ Sat Jan 27, 2007 5:32 am ]
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If it's a Martin type, it's not too difficult to shorten it. Take the same required amount off the shaft and the u-channel. Just be sure the u-channel cut is dead square.
This worked fine for me using a Martin-supplied rod on a 12-fret, approx 23" scale nedk for a size 5 guitar.
Author:  LarryH [ Sat Jan 27, 2007 5:50 am ]
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[QUOTE=burbank] If it's a Martin type, it's not too difficult to shorten it. Take the same required amount off the shaft and the u-channel. Just be sure the u-channel cut is dead square.
This worked fine for me using a Martin-supplied rod on a 12-fret, approx 23" scale neck for a size 5 guitar.[/QUOTE]

Tom, It's a Hot Rod Truss Rod from StewMac and I think having it stick out will not be problem, so perhaps no need to cut it and I'm also figuring this is a problem long ago solved by most on the board - not sure why I'm stuck.

Here's a pic of what I'm thinking for the braces on the top and under the fretboard extension. May start a new thread with that pic and question as a bracing topic.

Author:  LarryH [ Sat Jan 27, 2007 6:19 am ]
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Here's the problem as I see it. If I want to extend the truss rod into the body I'll have to find a way to stabilize the brass retainer to allow the truss rod to operate. This seems like it will take a brace of some kind either on the guitar top or and extension off the heel block.

Has anyone solved this? Or should I just end the truss rod at the tenon (where the brass retainer is captured by the routed notch) and look for a 5" allen wrench and hope I can find it when the time comes to adjust the rod?

Author:  letseatpaste [ Sat Jan 27, 2007 7:05 am ]
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I was about to post a similar question Larry... It seems everyone does it that way with the end of the truss rod hanging out under the fingerboard, I even learned it that way in the class I took with Harry Fleishman. It still seems completely counter-intuitive to me to do it that way with the brass end not contained. I know the truss rod does it's work all along the rod and not just at the ends, but it seems like it should still be secured at the ends.

I think a T-handled allen wrench would be long enough and work fine if you put a hole in the cross brace. I think I'm going to give it a shot with the 12-1/4" rod (24.75 scale 12-fret on mine), but I'll probably sketch it up soon and post my plan of attack here to see if there are any better ideas.
Author:  LarryH [ Sat Jan 27, 2007 8:11 am ]
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[QUOTE=letseatpaste] I was about to post a similar question Larry... It seems everyone does it that way with the end of the truss rod hanging out under the fingerboard, I even learned it that way in the class I took with Harry Fleishman. It still seems completely counter-intuitive to me to do it that way with the brass end not contained. I know the truss rod does it's work all along the rod and not just at the ends, but it seems like it should still be secured at the ends.

I think a T-handled allen wrench would be long enough and work fine if you put a hole in the cross brace. I think I'm going to give it a shot with the 12-1/4" rod (24.75 scale 12-fret on mine), but I'll probably sketch it up soon and post my plan of attack here to see if there are any better ideas.[/QUOTE]

Thanks for the feedback Jon,

So you've seen/done it with that brass end just hanging out there? That does not seem so cool to me since the brass retainer is what the adjustment nut turns within. If the brass just turn with the nut then what kind of adjustment is there? Hmmmm

I haven't decided which way to go yet. I just know what a pain it is to adjust even the most accessible adjustment nut.
Author:  Brock Poling [ Sat Jan 27, 2007 8:20 am ]
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You don't want the hot rod sticking out like that. you want the brass fitting inside the channel. Mine all fit flush and they work fine. If you go to an automotive store you can find a long allen wrench (1/8" IIRC) and you can put a handle on it (I made a T handle) and it works great.

I know some people use the enclosed style and let it stick out, but you don't want to do this with a hot rod.

The size rod you have is correct.

Author:  LarryH [ Sat Jan 27, 2007 8:30 am ]
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[QUOTE=Brock Poling]
You don't want the hot rod sticking out like that. you want the brass fitting inside the channel. Mine all fit flush and they work fine. If you go to an automotive store you can find a long allen wrench (1/8" IIRC) and you can put a handle on it (I made a T handle) and it works great.

I know some people use the enclosed style and let it stick out, but you don't want to do this with a hot rod.

The size rod you have is correct.

[/QUOTE]

Awesome Brock - decision made - thank you so much for making the time to post.

Larry
Author:  letseatpaste [ Sat Jan 27, 2007 9:20 am ]
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[QUOTE=Hesh1956] If you don't like the truss rod hanging out in space and are not keen on simply buying a longer wrench there is another possibility - put the truss rod adjustment on the head stock and use the shorter rod.[/QUOTE]

I had considered that, but it doesn't seem like a good idea for a slotted headstock (aesthetically or structurally). I've never seen one, has anyone done that?
Author:  James W B [ Sat Jan 27, 2007 11:52 am ]
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According to Lmi most people use the shorter rods on 12 frets.Especially if it`s a shorter scale length.
                                          James W B
Author:  CarltonM [ Sun Jan 28, 2007 3:36 pm ]
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Can't leave the brass fitting hanging out if using a "Hot Rod." Neither end is welded, so the fittings will turn if unsupported.
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